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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Jun 5, 2011 9:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

I take umbrage with three parts of Trucks statement as it relates to the 72'-74'portion of the bands history.First only a portion of the bands music was country/ bluegrass based,the bulk of their repertoire and certainly the more "jam" based material had very little to do those styles,if one wants to nitpick you could make the point that Jerry's style was very informed by bluegrass banjo players,but I don't think during Dark Star Earl Scruggs jumps to mind.
Second,I find the "every oncein a while they would find a groove" comment to be completely without merit since there are literally hundreds of examples of the band playing unique,complex and interesting music right here on the archive on such pieces as Dark Star,PITB,Other One,Eyes of the World,Bird Song and in a different manner on the rest of their catalog.
Finally,to infer that Keith and Weir weren't capable of "really playing" is ludicrous.While Keith might not have been a great pianist,he surely was very competent and fit the band perfectly,adding some beautiful and inventive piano and keyboard work.As for Weir's ability on guitar,it should go with out saying that he is a fine guitarist,singular in style.
Mr. Trucks sounds a little bitter perhaps jealous of the Dead's poularity.I find it funny that he would call out another bands music when his band is mired in the white boy blues genre and has not been relevant since Duane died in 1971.

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Poster: duckpond74 Date: Jun 5, 2011 10:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

"... you could make the point that Jerry's style was very informed by bluegrass banjo players,but I don't think during Dark Star Earl Scruggs jumps to mind."

Then how do you explain the ending on the 45 rpm single version of Dark Star?

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Jun 6, 2011 9:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

Honestly Duckpond I have never heard the 45 rpm single of Dark Star since I have no interest at all in the bands studio efforts,but since you bring it up I would assume it has either some banjo or banjo influenced playing on it.I would explain that by saying that version has some banjo or banjo influenced playing on it as opposed to the majority which doesn't.My point was the improvisational music was less influenced by country/bluegrass roots than other styles,if you hear it differently than so be it.

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Poster: duckpond74 Date: Jun 6, 2011 11:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

"My point was the improvisational music was less influenced by country/bluegrass roots than other styles,if you hear it differently than so be it."

I get your point jerlouvis, and I'll agree that we all can hear things differently . . . but, your having not heard that strange and silly 2:44 Dark Star single, let my tongue-in-cheek response to your banjo comment - specifically with you mentioning Earl Scruggs - fall flat. To let you know, after a quick paced, jaunty '68 style Dark Star that features chorused vocals, sitar-like sounds, a brief acoustic guitar bit - and no improvisation whatsoever - the tune ends with Jerry reciting prose while playing a short, brisk, and a very strong Earl Scruggs style banjo bit. . . . I actually responded, 'cuz I thought your Scruggs / banjo comment was alluding to the single. Some time when you have 3 minutes to spare and want to see why a Dark Star / Earl Scruggs relationship does indeed exist, check it out. I know of one musician who took up banjo and has made a comfortable living all because he was so taken with that bit on the single. . . . funny old world.

Along these lines, I've always felt that what many folks call the 'Mind Left Body Jam' was bluegrass and banjo influenced. Your thoughts or comments would be welcome.

And, by the way, I agree with much of what both you and Butch Trucks have stated . . . we all hear it differently.

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Jun 6, 2011 4:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

After reading the description of that Dark Star in your response DP,somewhere in the recesses of my crispy brainpan I do recall hearing that version some many years ago and now better understand your original post.As for the bluegrass/banjo influence I find that it filters it's way into the music more in the way Jerry plays his guitar with a banjo technique than a strong country/bluegrass/banjo resultant sound during the jams.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Jun 6, 2011 6:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

"What many folks call the 'Mind Left Body Jam' was bluegrass and banjo influenced."

I doubt this. I think it may sound this way cause Jerry's fingerpicking the chords sometimes - and on 9/21/72 it does come out of that bluegrassy jam, kind of like a cross with the Goin' Down the Road intro. But fingerpicking arpeggios doesn't necessarily mean Jerry's channeling the banjo....any more than his using the slide in the Mind Left Body jam means it was influenced by blues slide playing! It was kind of a combination of everything....
Actually I hear more of a bluegrassy element the way Jerry plays that extended outro to Playing in the Band they'd do in '74!

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